Estimates committee
The meeting commenced at 9:00 am.
Division 24: Department of Training and Workforce Development—Services 1 to 5, 7 to 8: Skills and TAFE
Mrs Magenta Marshall, Chair.
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson, Minister for Skills and TAFE.
Ms Jodie Wallace, Director General.
Ms Elaine Paterson, Executive Director, Service Resource Management.
Mr Graham Thompson, Executive Director, Corporate.
Dr Ross Kelly, Executive Director, Policy Planning and Innovation.
Mr Grant Goldfinch, Executive Director, Service Delivery.
Ms Rachel Trotter, Director, Finance Services.
Mr Cameron Barnes, Chief of Staff.
(The witnesses were introduced.)
The Chair: The estimates committees will be reported by Hansard, and the daily proof will be available online as soon as possible within two business days. The Chair will allow as many questions as possible. Questions and answers should be short and to the point. Consideration is restricted to items for which a vote of money is proposed in the consolidated account. Questions must relate to a page number, item or amount related to the current division, and members should preface their questions with those details. Some divisions are the responsibility of more than one minister. Ministers shall be examined only in relation to their portfolio responsibilities.
A minister may agree to provide supplementary information to the committee. I will ask the minister to clearly indicate what information they agree to provide and will then allocate a reference number. Supplementary information should be provided to the principal clerk by noon on Friday 11 July 2025.
If a minister suggests that a matter be put on notice, members should use the online questions on notice system to submit their questions.
After this division we have the five off-budget authorities to work through, noting that all have to be done by 10:00 am. Are there any questions? The member for Carine.
Mr Liam Staltari: I thank the minister and her advisers for their time. I might begin with the net cost of service on page 376 of volume 1, budget paper No 2, under the heading "Services to TAFE Colleges". I refer to the Office of the Auditor General's report, Financial Audit Results: Universities and TAFEs 2024, and note that the Auditor General identified recurring deficits across all WA TAFEs. What actions are being taken by the minister and the department to address these deficits?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: I ask the director general, Ms Wallace, to respond.
Ms Jodie Wallace:
There has been significant investment in TAFE colleges over the last few years. There was significant additional investment of $250 million on infrastructure in the last term of government to increase infrastructure developments in TAFE colleges around the state. There has also been significant additional training delivery by the TAFE colleges and a $25 million investment in technical equipment over the last term of government. In this term of government, there is an election commitment to invest an additional $33 million in TAFE modern infrastructure over the next four years. We work closely with the TAFE colleges to ensure that TAFE colleges have the funds they need to deliver their services across the state.
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: If I may, there has been a massive uplift in funding for the TAFE colleges, as the director general outlined. The correction, if you like, of the allocation of funds is usually determined at the midyear review depending on the demand for the courses. It is not capped, as such, from a funding perspective. There was a reallocation, if you like, at the midyear review that reflects the actual demand.
Mr Liam Staltari: I might remain on that item if I can. I note that the report also found that at the North Metropolitan TAFE, North Regional TAFE and South Metropolitan TAFE, the cost per student curriculum hours amount increased in 2024 from the year prior. What is the reason for that increase?
Ms Jodie Wallace:
The increase in the cost of delivery is reflected in the additional investment in TAFE colleges over that time and also the additional training delivery that was conducted by the TAFE colleges.
Mr Liam Staltari: I refer to the Construction Visa Subsidy program and the $11 million allocated to it this coming budget year on page 375 of budget paper No 2, volume 1. Can the minister advise how many small businesses are expected to benefit from the extension of the additional investment in that program? I will have some further questions subject to the answer to that.
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: I can confirm that up until 30 May 2025, 879 businesses have opened Construction Migration Office cases. There is not a breakdown of the size of those businesses. The visa program is determined by the number of skilled migrants, not the businesses. Businesses can apply for multiple visa pathways. It is about the number of skilled workers who are coming through. We would expect that to be extended to further businesses with the new allocation of funding. I may refer to the director general, who can give a little bit more detail.
Ms Jodie Wallace:
Thank you, minister. The Construction Migration Office at the Department of Training and Workforce Development works with employers and small businesses to help them understand the migration pathways available to them and helps them navigate the migration system and understand how they can sponsor a skilled migrant and access the Construction Visa Subsidy program. Our staff at the department are unable to provide migration advice. We do not have people trained in immigration law at the department. It is not our role to be providing immigration advice to employers about how they access pathways and sponsor a skilled migrant, but certainly we are working with building and construction employers to help them sponsor a skilled migrant and access the Construction Visa Subsidy program to help them offset the costs of those activities to bring a worker into Western Australia. We would be looking to help more small and medium-sized businesses to access that program and be able to employ skilled workers.
(9:10 am)
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: Since its inception on 1 July 2023, there was a commitment to provide 2,200 places to help support the construction sector. The skilled migration of labourers is one of the biggest challenges. The program provides up to $10,000 of support for employers and independent skilled migrants to offset the costs of either applying for a visa for an employee or relocating. Following strong demand from employers, the CVSB was extended in October 2024 to an additional 1,100 places, and from 1 July 2023 to 30 May 2024, 1,653 of the available places have been taken up by employers. Of those, 400 are for the Build a Life in WA program, which attracts people from interstate and New Zealand. As at 30 May 2025, 1,653 places have been taken up with employers and 830 skilled migrants are now living and working in Western Australia.
Mr Jonathan Huston: With regard to the program itself, are there measures or controls in place to ensure that those workers find their way into genuinely small operators, as opposed to larger firms? Is that a control that is in place, or is the government agnostic on where they land?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: The primary motivation for this program is to support the construction sector and to enable it to have the workforce it needs to deliver residential housing in particular. It is about the skills. Whilst the sector is made up of varying sized contractors, there are no limitations on the size and it is not targeted specifically towards any particular cohort; rather, it is about getting the skills in place and on the ground to build the homes that we need.
Mr Shane Love: Are the overseas qualification assessments done before the person embarks to Western Australia or when they get here?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: The assessment is generally done by the Department of Home Affairs, and it depends on which visa they come through. That is not in the control of the state; the Commonwealth does the skills assessment, as it does with any other sector. The role of the state is to support the employers to go through that quite convoluted and challenging process and to support those who are successful through the Commonwealth migration pathway to relocate.
Mr Yaz Mubarakai: Can the minister outline what strategies have been put in place to address the skills shortages, particularly in the construction sector?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: We know that we have seen significant growth and demand in our housing sector, particularly our residential sector. This government has demonstrated a strong commitment to growing the construction workforce, which we are doing through investing in training to deliver the workforce to deliver the houses of not only today, but also tomorrow. We are training people who are ready and live locally and also attracting job-ready tradies for today. We continue to invest in these skills through fee-free and lower-fee training incentives to support employers to engage apprentices and trainees, and the targeted migration program to attract skilled migrants from interstate and overseas.
In this budget alone, we have committed $21.9 million to extend fee-free training and added another seven building and construction courses to that fee-free cohort. I believe that they will be made free from today. Sorry! It will be from 2026. This builds on a number of existing measures to build locally and to build local construction industry skills, including 36 building and construction courses and skill sets that continue to be offered through the fee-free and low-fee TAFE setting; the free Job Ready programs in bricklaying and infrastructure, which directly connect job seekers with construction sector employers; and an expansion of the group training organisation wage subsidy, which has been really important for supporting employers to take on apprentices. It can be a commitment. The subsidy provides them with the necessary mentoring and wraparound support to complete their four-year training. Last year, we opened the $51 million Construction Skills Innovation Hub at North Metropolitan TAFE's Balga campus. This investment includes the future trades workshop, which will equip apprentices with skills in critical residential building trades.
Although the priority is supporting our local workforce, we are also supporting 1,200 skilled migrants with building and construction skills to come to WA through the construction visa and Build a Life in WA programs. Around 70 occupations that relate to the building and construction industry are on the WA designated area migration agreement, or DAMA. A key focus of the state government is ensuring that we have the appropriate workforce for the construction sector. It is probably the priority workforce. Before bringing in other skilled workers, we need people to be able to build houses for the skilled migrants to come to and, of course, for local people to have affordable properties to buy.
Mr Liam Staltari: I refer to page 375 of budget paper No 2, volume 1, on division 24 and the topic the minister touched on, the group training organisation wage subsidy program. The budget commits $5.7 million to expand the program. My first question is: What is the breakdown of subsidies between small, medium and large employers if there is a differential between the levels provided?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: I do not have a breakdown between small, medium and large businesses, but I am happy to take that question on notice if it is appropriate. The program was expanded to help ease labour market pressures experienced by the residential construction sector, and an additional 475 places were added. It is a really important program and has supported a number of employers to take on apprentices. I can provide the further breakdown as supplementary information.
The Chair: Is that a question on notice?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: I will provide it as supplementary information.
The Chair: We need the minister to state exactly what information will be provided as supplementary information.
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: Can I get some clarity from the member on his definition of small and medium business?
Mr Liam Staltari: To ensure alignment in the answer we receive, we would be happy to provide that out of session if that is convenient.
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: To get the answer to the question the member wants to ask, a better approach is probably to put the question, with the definitions, on notice. Then, we can respond in that way.
Mr Liam Staltari: That is fine by us.
I refer to the same line item and theme. Again, this hinges on a definition and is in tandem with the GTO program. Obviously, small or micro businesses may never have engaged an apprentice before. Is complementary support provided to help them logistically to engage an apprentice?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: The GTOs are there to help support small businesses and provide them with access to apprentices. By definition, that is their role.
(9:20 am)
Mr Shane Love: I would like to ask a question about page 383.
The Chair: Is this a different question?
Mr Shane Love: It is a separate question about the Clean Energy Skills National Centre of Excellence and the budgeted amount of $36,595,000.
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: Sorry, could you ask the member to speak up? I am having trouble hearing him.
Mr Shane Love: Sorry. I am asking about the Clean Energy Skills National Centre of Excellence's total of $36,595,000, which has a budget allocation until 2027–28. The question is: When will that centre be operational? When is it expected to first become an operational centre?
The Chair: Member, are you able to clarify which page you are referring to?
Mr Shane Love: It is page 383 of budget paper No 2, under "Other New Works".
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: It is operational now. Many of those courses are being delivered through the existing TAFE network. An industry-led advisory board is leading the Clean Energy Skills National Centre of Excellence to support the future growth of the workforce and our ambition towards net zero. It provides a front door for industry to access comprehensive training and workforce solutions across the state's network of TAFE colleges and specialist private providers. Leveraging the expertise of TAFE colleges locally and nationally will ensure that Western Australians can access world-class training for the energy transition. WA has a project pipeline worth in excess of $200 billion to 2050. The Clean Energy Skills National Centre of Excellence will work on skills initiatives as a key enabler of the $2.8 billion package for new solar, wind and battery storage capacity. It is expected to increase the number of apprentices. It has a focus on grid opportunities in green hydrogen, critical minerals and other green industries. It exists now and is guided by the industry-led body.
The Chair: I note that there is some interference with mobile phones through the system. If people have their phones near the microphones, it might be best to move them away.
Mr Shane Love: Minister, if it is in operation now, what will this budget expenditure achieve?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: The $70 million budget allocation is both state and federal funding. It reflects the activity of the centre and is driving the upgrading of the centre's equipment, curriculum and functions. It is also part of the National Skills Agreement.
Mr Liam Staltari: I refer to page 376 of budget paper No 2, volume 1, on division 24, and "VET Workforce Planning and Policy Development" under the heading "Service Summary". I note that funding for that initiative is projected to decline from about $41 million in this budget year to $34.29 million in 2028–29. I am curious why that is the case.
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: If the member looks across the budget years, he will note that it is actually a significant uplift this year. It was uplifted from $24 million in the last financial year to $40 million. As we move through the budget out years, it remains significantly higher than it has previously been. The uplift in this budget reflects our commitment to training and making sure that we do the appropriate planning and workforce development. We are ensuring that we support the clean energy demands of the future defence industry. The demands of the future will be significant, and we are ensuring that we do the appropriate planning and development to support those demands.
Mr Liam Staltari: Granted, there is an uplift. Is there a logic for why it starts to taper in the out years? What has been the thinking behind that provision?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: It is the timing of the funding for the centre of excellence.
Mr Jonathan Huston: I refer to page 376 of budget paper No 2, volume 1, and the entry "Jobs and Skills Centre Services". Can the minister explain why there is a decline from $17.46 million in 2025–26 to $15.43 million in 2028–29? Will any jobs and skills centres be closed, and will the number of staff be reduced?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: The member points to one of the Cook government's signature training policies. Important aspects of our training policy show the priority that we put on supporting our community to pivot into skills. This did not exist when we came to government in 2017. They are outstanding centres, and the staff who work in them do an incredible job, particularly in working with young people or people whose jobs are transitioning—for example, people in Collie. They work on their individual plans, their skills and the opportunities available to them. It is an ongoing commitment from the state government. We will not be closing or reducing the staff in those centres; they are critically important to support training and skills development. The slight decrease in the total cost of services largely reflects the timing of the expenditure for the Job Ready program.
Mr Jonathan Huston: I refer to page 376 of budget paper No 2, volume 1. Vitally, why is funding for "Skilled Migration, Including Overseas Qualification Assessment", which is how we assess whether people can do the jobs they say they can, expected to decline from $25 million in 2025–26 to just $4.6 million in 2028–29? That is a 75% reduction.
(9:30 am)
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: The budget reflects the Construction Visa Subsidy program and the Build a Life in WA program. We will continue to monitor them, and should they continue to be successful, we will go through a future budget process. But that is a reflection of the uplift for the Construction Visa Subsidy program and the Build a Life in WA program.
Mr Jonathan Huston: Can the minister give some sort of assurance that there will be no change in our ability to assess the quality of training overseas by incoming workers into Western Australia given the reduction?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: As I pointed out, the Department of Home Affairs assesses the quality of the workers, not the state government.
Mr Jonathan Huston: What is this money for then?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: It is for the Construction Visa Subsidy program, which supports employers to go through the very convoluted, complex and costly visa process that the Commonwealth and home security runs. It is also for the Build a Life in WA subsidy, which includes the $10,000 relocation grants for individuals once they have completed and successfully managed to get through the visa program. But it is the Commonwealth—the Department of Home Affairs—that assesses visa applications, not the state government.
Mr Jonathan Huston: Is this the assessment of their qualification?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: Correct.
Mr Jonathan Huston: I am not asking about their qualification to get a visa; I am asking about the skills qualification.
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: That is assessed by the Department of Home Affairs so that they meet the requirements of the visa.
Mr Jonathan Huston: Why do we contribute to it at all then?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: Our contribution., as reflected in the budget, is supporting employers to go through the process and the individuals to relocate. We are not contributing to the Commonwealth's immigration program.
Mr Jonathan Huston: I understand. Are we contributing to its overseas qualification assessments?
Ms Amber-Jade Sanderson: That is entirely done by the Commonwealth so that applicants meet the requirements of the visa.
The appropriation was recommended.
