Vocational education and training
Motion
Hon Klasey Hirst (11:24 am) without notice: I move:
That this house acknowledges the work of the Cook Labor government to bolster the reputation and value of vocational education and training in Western Australia.
I am really pleased to put forward this motion today. It is a very timely motion, given that National Skills Week will run from 25 to 31 August, next week. The focus of that is the role that skills play in our communities, the opportunities that vocational education and training (VET) provides and challenging the stigma that it is second best. In the WA context, skills and training are essential to building our workforce and shaping our future opportunities. Skills and training have always been at the heart of how we build our workforce and how we shape our opportunities for the future.
I will provide a little historical context so, members, please indulge me. I know that members know about my personal connection to Midland—my dad, my uncles, my grandfather, my great uncles and my great-grandfather all worked at the Midland workshops. What members may not know is that I have other connections there, too. I am talking about my great-uncle Ted Holdsworth. He was a highly successful Swan Districts footballer, but he was also one of only three master of apprentices at Midland workshops in its 90-year history. They oversaw the training of literally thousands of apprentices over that time. It was a really important role. They went out there and encouraged people to take on trades and they also helped with their selection. They oversaw their training and, lastly, they examined the trainees before they finished their training. Apprentices rotated through the workshops and were provided practical training on all aspects of the job. They learnt a breadth of skills; they learnt teamwork and the interdependence of all their trades. These were craftsman—for example, car and wagon builders. We still have wagons that were built nearly 100 years ago, and their quality and craftsmanship is astounding.
One of the reasons I wanted to move this motion today is that my dad was recently talking to the son of a friend of mine, who was down here doing some TAFE work for his plumbing apprenticeship. Dad and he were connecting over their time as apprentices, and Dad told him that at the end of the fourth and last year of his apprenticeship, on the last Friday before Christmas, all the employers were lined up outside the front gates of Midland workshops to offer jobs to these highly skilled, highly trained apprentices. They knew that they would get a highly skilled worker if they had been to Midland. When Dad told me about that, it really struck me how strong the trust in our training system was then.
Another thing is the connection to Midland. I speak to many people here, and everyone is like, "Yes, I had an uncle or a great-grandfather that went there as well." It seems that everyone has a relative who went there. When I am out and about in the hills area, it feels like literally everyone will say, when I say my maiden name, "Oh, I worked with your dad", or "I worked with your uncle", or "I knew your granddad". The connection is literally still there, after all these years; but, as we know, the workshops' closure in 1994 under the Court Liberal government ended nearly a century of skills, training and identity. It was not just a workplace that shut its doors; it was nearly a century of skills training, pride and identity that was taken away.
I am proud of my family connection, and I am sorry if I bring it up so often, but I am very proud to be their descendant. I am also proud to be part of the Cook Labor government, which is working to ensure that our TAFE and training organisations are enduring—the community-embedded institutions that are widely respected by both the workforce and industry.
Just to provide a little bit more context, the closure of Midland workshops—one of the great training centres of our state, if you will—was symbolic of a wider undervaluing of the VET sector. It is unfortunate that successive Liberal governments failed to see TAFE and training as initiatives worth investing in. Rather, they left it to the private sector for profit, and that has really fed into the narrative that TAFE lacks the prestige of university and that vocational education and training is not an admirable learning pathway. When government fails to back skills training, the consequences are detrimental. Throughout that time, enrolments and commencements plummeted and industry lost confidence in the system. We can compare that with before then. Industry was literally lining up to offer people jobs.
We saw what happened under the Barnett government. It hiked TAFE fees and cut funding. TAFE fees rose by up to 510% from 2013 to 2017. Some of those courses were $7,000 to $10,000 more expensive. We also saw in that period a 23% decrease in the number of students, with around 27,000 students going through, and 200 jobs cut in the sector. The policy decisions at that time exacerbated the negative perceptions of VET, disincentivised skills training and made TAFE inaccessible. TAFE was treated as something to cut back on rather than something to invest in. The damage done through underinvestment is not abstract; real people miss out on opportunities and real industries are left without workers.
It has created long-term stigma. VET is treated as the poor cousin to university. The Western Australian State Training Board released Mobilising WA's Future: Young people in VET in 2023, and there are a few findings that I find really quite stark. Finding 2.1 states:
VET is frequently seen as an inferior learning pathway, particularly among parents and teachers, and this is one of the major barriers to young people choosing a VET qualification.
Finding 2.2 states:
Parents have the greatest influence on their child’s education and career choices. Their lack of understanding of the VET sector and poor perception of VET impact the expectations they hold for their children’s post-school study and career options.
Finding 2.4 states:
Despite recent campaigns and considerable government effort at all levels, there is still more work needed to reduce the stigma in our community associated with choosing VET over university.
Let us look at the acknowledged and considerable effort that has been made. We know that more needs to be done, but we have done so much. We are changing the narrative through our record investment in TAFE and training. We are positioning VET as a high-quality and reputable pathway towards a rewarding career.
First of all, let us look at the Lower Fees, Local Skills program. We have reduced TAFE fees by up to 72% for about 160 courses. There were 57,000 Lower Fees, Local Skills enrolments in 2024 alone, and there have been almost 41,400 up to June 2025. We are putting these enrolments into priority courses in the aged care, disability, early childhood, construction and technology sectors.
I have some local examples from the Midland TAFE. The impact is really clear when I look at this. The top five courses this year are all part of the Lower Fees, Local Skills program. These are engineering, electrical and mechanical technology courses. Depending on the course, there are savings of between $985 and $1,629. Collectively, there have been over 2,000 enrolments in these courses alone this year. Thousands of people who might not otherwise have had the chance to take on training are now able to upskill or start new careers.
Of course, we know about fee-free TAFE—that is zero fees—in priority areas. Again, there were more than 45,000 enrolments in fee-free courses last year and there have been more than 36,000 already this year. These are nursing, mental health, community services and trades courses.
Another example from Midland is a certificate IV in engineering. It is number 6 on the list at Midland TAFE. In 2017, the fee was $3,848. Today, it is free. This year there have been over 138 enrolments in this course. That is the difference between training being out of reach and training being possible.
We also have other critical sectors. We have removed barriers for courses in nursing and early childhood education. A certificate IV in preparation for health and nursing studies is free. In 2017, it was $1,040. There are 80 students doing it this year. A certificate III in early childhood education and care is free. In 2017, it was $3,452. There are 50 students studying it this year. Yesterday, I met somebody who was completely unrelated to this. He did not know I was doing this. He told me that his daughter had just finished her certificate III in early childhood education and care at Midland TAFE. He observed how good the course was, how much hands-on training she got and what a great time she had, but, more importantly, she was able to access that for free. We know these areas are important. We need more nurses and early childhood educators. Demand is there, so providing access to affordable and high-quality training is vital. By delivering these high-quality, fee-free courses in the health and care sectors, we are sending a clear message that we value those skills and we recognise the work of VET-qualified nurses and early childhood educators. It is all part of ensuring that vocational education receives the respect, recognition and investment that it deserves.
Of course, we are also investing in infrastructure. We have put over $200 million into WA TAFEs—that is the largest investment ever—to boost capacity and improve training for in-demand sectors. We have $38.6 million for the Armadale training centre; $21.9 million for the Albany trade workshop; $12.6 million for the heavy plant workshops in Kalgoorlie, which is my personal favourite; and $12.4 million for hospitality and student services in Broome. It is happening in the regions, too.
We know that young people make up over half of WA's VET participants. Our investment in TAFE and training has increased the number of places for VET delivered to secondary students (VETDSS). Just last year, there were 9,820 publicly funded enrolments in VETDSS qualifications and skillsets for school students through TAFE colleges and contracted private registered training operators. We have seen an increase in the number of career advisers, ensuring that students understand the full value of VET alongside university options.
We have the Career Taster program, which provides around half of WA's year 9 students with hands-on, practical industry taster experiences. Since we launched it in 2022, over 43,000 year 9 students have participated. Last year, more than 13,800 students participated in the program.
There are also opportunities for school students across all sectors to engage in the world of work and learn about different industries and career pathways. These are industry-led experiences and activities.
The expansion of VET in schools has provided more students with the opportunity to complete qualifications while still enrolled in secondary school. It provides them with an opportunity to try different courses. If they do a pre-apprenticeship, it gives them a head start. These initiatives underscore that commitment to reshaping the narrative for TAFE and training and showcase the opportunity for high-quality VET education.
We also have other equity initiatives, such as the women in trades program, Aboriginal student pathways and migrant and regional supports. This is about making TAFE and training fair, accessible and respected.
We have had quite a number of achievements through this. The numbers are growing again after a decline. Since 2017, the number of apprentices in training has grown by almost 70%. In the building and construction sector in particular, the number has grown by over 35%. In the metals, manufacturing and services sector, it has grown by 85%. Western Australia achieved a record number of apprentices in training last year, with an increase of over 40% compared with 2020.
I want to touch on a particular highlight. Western Australian apprentices consistently perform well at the WorldSkills Australia National Championships, and this year the competition was held in June. Team WA brought home 23 medals and 16 certificates of excellence. This is recognition of TAFE graduates in the construction, health and hospitality sectors.
In my short time left, I want to echo the statement of the minister:
The 2025 WorldSkills National Championships have once again highlighted the exceptional talent within Western Australia's vocational education sector.
Our team of young professionals has proven that WA is a powerhouse in vocational education. Their success is a testament to the high-quality training opportunities and mentorship available in our State.
Employers know that if they get a TAFE student from Western Australia, that student will have the practical skills from having been taught well, which translates into reliability, safety and excellence on the job. That cannot be achieved without the strong investments we have seen in TAFE and training. Vocational training has never been second best. It is always essential to providing the skills required for our state.
Hon Tjorn Sibma (11:40 am): There is an appetite on this side of the house to speak on this private members' business motion. I acknowledge Hon Klasey Hirst's first private members' business item. I also acknowledge the substantial topic that she has brought to our attention today. I also share some of those Friesian bloodlines, which have largely gone unheralded by the Parliament of Western Australia, but I am looking forward to a bright new era. Indeed, I address my remarks with the future in mind.
I agree with Hon Klasey Hirst's observations that there has been a reduction in the esteem and respect that has been conveyed towards the vocational education and training sector for a long time. I think that is absolutely in need of correction and amendment. We are all called upon to give advice to young people in various official ways through addressing school graduations and the like, particularly to young men between the ages of, say, 15 and 21 or 22, who can tend to verge towards being directionless or seeking purpose or some advice on how they make their way in the world. I am happy to advise those people to learn a trade and develop a skill set. Not only will they do something that is useful to the community and to the economy, and they get to build things, but it is also the best way to get on and build a life. It is absolutely the way to success.
Culturally in Australia, there has been an unfortunate bias towards a university education. There has been a channelling of human capital towards the tertiary sector. From the perspective of 40 years of reflection, the quality and the wisdom of that decision should be questioned. If there is a problem in higher education in Australia, it is the quality of a university education. In the main, I do not think university students in Australia are getting value for their time or money. We need to reposition ourselves as a society, particularly in Western Australia where the needs are acute, to building the esteem, rebuilding the reputation and encouraging people to consider at their youngest moments a career in training and apprenticeships. Those opportunities are multiple, magnified and growing.
I acknowledge that the government is committed to investing in the public TAFE system. That is a policy determination that it has taken. However, I think it is a mistake to purely emphasise TAFE to the exclusion of group training organisations and other private or not-for-profit providers who I think are doing an exceptional job. Indeed, we want the best possible training ecosystem in Western Australia that we can possibly get. That will not only require some public input, but also rely on the private sector. I want to acknowledge some of the great group training organisations that I have had the opportunity to meet in the short time that I have been the shadow spokesperson for training and workforce development. They include Skill Hire, which is in a range of locations, the Motor Trade Association of Western Australia and the College of Electrical Training, in Joondalup. Those organisations work in parallel with the TAFE system.
The issue of enrolments is important. We need to channel human capital—our talent, our young people and mature age people—into a vocational education stream if that is what they want to do. However, we have to ensure that the courses that are delivered, the content of those courses and the relevance of those courses to the workforce and to industry are up to scratch. The world changes and it changes fast. Unfortunately, we have a 50% attrition rate across the board of TAFE offerings. We have been concentrating on one end of the pipeline but there is a foot on the hose somewhere. We are not getting the maximum output from that investment when 50% of TAFE enrolees do not complete their course. That is the problem we need to address. We need to address both things. We are doing some work as a Parliament, as politicians, in government and in opposition, to encourage a trades future, to meet not only the human needs of the individual, but also the needs of our communities and our economies. We have to resist the temptation to pat ourselves on the back and say "job done". That indulges what I call the input fallacy of public policy throughout Australia, which is that we focus purely and utterly on the amount of money that we are devoting to something. Very rarely are we prepared to undertake the hard and honest work of assessing whether the systems that we have established are delivering. Unfortunately, at the moment we have a 50% burn rate, though some courses do better than others. That is an average. If we have that kind of dropout rate, something is going wrong. There has not been enough focus on that fact in Western Australia, nor nationally.
The Economic Reform Roundtable has been a complete and utter flop federally. The Australian Council of Trade Unions and the union movement think the solution to skills in Australia is to implement another levy on business. That was dismissed out of hand, as it should have been. A similar levy applies in Western Australia. Although everybody has conceded that that is here to stay, the output and the delivery of the Construction Training Fund leaves little to be desired. There is a reluctance to fund infrastructure capacity across the board in our training ecosystem. It is very difficult to obtain funds to partly offset the cost of investment in training infrastructure if an organisation is not already in the TAFE system. Unfortunately, where we are going wrong in Western Australia is that we have a very blinkered view, on behalf of the government, that the only way to do training is to do training through the public sector or to do it through the TAFE system, to the exclusion of everything else. The strategic objective is to train as many people as we can, keep them engaged until the completion of their course and have them job fit, job ready, from day one. That is not what we are doing. We have to take off our ideological blinkers and focus on the strategic outcome. So long as the government is just focused on budget announcements and photo ops, we will fail to deliver the trained and skilled workforce that Western Australia needs. We have already suffered from pronounced and prolonged skills shortages across every meaningful trade, and it will get worse. There is something coming for us in our workforce in Western Australia that is not germane to Western Australia. It is the enormous capital intensity that the Brisbane Olympic Games will bring. That will soak up so much of what is not spare labour in Australia, and it will be a problem for us. Unfortunately, the way we are going about staffing and providing a skilled workforce to meet Western Australia's needs will barely be sufficient for Western Australia's needs, and it might be pinched by our counterparts in Queensland. With that, I thank the member for bringing the motion to the chamber's attention.
Hon Andrew O'Donnell (11:50 am): I thank Hon Klasey Hirst for bringing this motion to the house today. I will never get tired of hearing about the deep roots of her family in the Midland community. It is always a delightful tale and it never gets old! I also want to welcome some of the words from Hon Tjorn Sibma on his commitment to the vocational education and training sector. I was not going to have a crack, but I am disappointed that his party did not share the same commitment when it was last in government and unfortunately drove that sector firmly into the ground. It did not share that same commitment with either TAFE or TAFE graduates.
I have got some stats and we all love stats. I suspect we will have more stats—
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: Have you got a chart?
Hon Andrew O'Donnell: I do love a good chart but I do not have one today. I suspect we will get more stats in this debate because there are some key stats that we on this side are all very proud about. One that I am really proud to talk about and may feature in a budget speech to be determined at a later stage is the $331 million in this year's budget for TAFE and training, of which $100 million will maintain fee-free and low-fee TAFE courses. That is genuine accessibility for people who want to access training opportunities. It is $100 million that will go purely towards making those training opportunities accessible for people. For those members who remember my inaugural speech, I spoke about the accessibility of university and why HECS–HELP is really important. That was really important for my journey to university. Without the higher education contribution scheme (HECS) that would not have been possible. For many students, to not have fee-free and low-fee TAFE courses would simply make them inaccessible, especially given that most of those fees are paid up-front.
I am pleased to also talk about an extra $22 million to expand the number of fee-free TAFE courses. I do not want to set off Hon Dr Steve Thomas, but it will be provided to the construction sector. I know that he gets concerned about acronyms when we talk about construction and he is a bit uncertain about what they all mean.
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: I know what BLF stands for.
Hon Andrew O'Donnell: I do too, but I am afraid that the member does not know what CFMEU stands for. To demystify this, I want to talk about what courses that $22 million will go towards, just for the benefit of Hon Dr Steve Thomas and only because he is here. I was not going to do this.
This is not some behemoth organisation that the member is talking about. We are talking about a certificate III in plumbing, in wall and ceiling lining, in bricklaying and blocklaying, in solid plastering and in civil construction, and a certificate II in construction and in construction pathways. We have spoken at length in this chamber over the last couple of days about housing affordability and availability. I think we can all agree that that $22 million is going where it is needed—to train the workforce that we need in the future to help build our houses. I am really pleased to see that money in the budget this year.
Hon Dan Caddy enlightened us yesterday on how we have had record enrolments. He also spoke about a number of other things, but I will not bring up the GST; I know that it sets people off! We have had record enrolments in TAFE with 165,000 in 2024, which is almost a 70% jump since 2017. That is what happens when we have a government that cares about TAFE, that is willing to put money behind TAFE and that genuinely cares about skilling up the workforce. I may have overprepared my speech, so I am going to skip ahead. There is so much to talk about.
I want to talk about the reputation of TAFE. Nothing says it better than the industry participation that we currently have through the TAFE sector. It is really important and it shows us that, to industry, TAFE is an institution. Industry would not be involved if they were not getting high-quality, highly skilled graduates at the end of it. That is a really important feature because when industry knows that they are getting these highly skilled, highly valued graduates, people know that when they seek this training, they will become one of those highly skilled and highly valued graduates. I am really pleased that we are getting that kind of industry integration with these courses.
While I am talking about industry integration, we have a really good story to tell about the defence industry. As many people know, we have got a growing defence industry in Western Australia. Some are even tipping it to be the second highest employer in WA in the next decade. South Metropolitan TAFE has been running programs in defence for some time, including the Defence Industry Pathways Program that partners with over 40 host employers in the maritime and defence industry. Over 70% of those graduates have gained roles within the defence industry, more than 38% of whom were women, which is really important to note. With strong industry partnerships and a firm presence in the defence, shipbuilding and sustainment industries, South Metro TAFE excels at producing job-ready workers for those industries that we will need in the future.
In the limited time available, I am pleased to note the $14.6 million joint investment with the Commonwealth to deliver a new TAFE Defence Industry Skills Centre of Excellence. That will focus on those skills that we will need into the future and on getting our workforce ready for those growth industries.
I was really pleased to hear Hon Klasey Hirst talk about TAFE's Career Taster Program for year 9 students. Growing on that integration in schools is the year 11 Defence Industry Pathways Program. Again, this is a really good program to help kids who are still in high school and have not yet made up their minds on what to do when they leave school. I did not make my mind up until after I had gone through my first degree at university, so I can understand why they might not have made up their minds! These programs are really good to help those kids find out what they want to do in life.
I want to talk about another matter—the Heavy Vehicle Driving Operations Skill Set course that is underway. A new $17.4 million facility is being created at Neerabup for heavy vehicle driver training. It has been facilitated by North Metropolitan TAFE and will include heavy rigid trucks and trailers, forklift trucks, high-tech heavy vehicle driving simulators and wide roads that are suitable for providing practical on-road skilled driver training. This is really important. We have an ageing population of truck drivers and not a lot of people to replace them. This facility will have capacity for up to 170 students a year. It is really important and it builds on further work that this government has done in that area to upgrade truck rest stops and to make that industry more sustainable into the future.
I am also pleased to talk about the reintroduced Adult Apprenticeship Employer Incentive that will offer 100 places in 2025–26 and fund employers, especially in the building and construction trades, to support the housing industry to meet the wage gap when employing an apprentice or trainee over the age of 21 years.
I will not get to the remainder of my speech. I wanted to talk about some of the outstanding things being done in the regions, and I hope some of my colleagues might pick up on that at some stage. I just want to say that this government cares about TAFE and the vocational education and training sector and is backing that up with more than just words. It is backing it up with funding and priorities.
Hon Matthew Swinbourn (Minister for the Environment) (12:00 pm): I stand to give the government response to this excellent motion moved by my colleague Hon Klasey Hirst. For those who do not know, the honourable member once worked for me, so I have heard a lot about her family connection to Midland and the railway workshops there. She is very proud and passionate about that, and I think she has a great opportunity to talk about that to the Parliament and share those stories.
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: Is that a nepotistic outcome or just on talent?
Hon Matthew Swinbourn: Just on talent, my friend. In any event, let us move on from that point.
I am happy to speak on this motion. There were a lot of government speakers on this motion who want to talk about the great achievements that we have in TAFE, and I thank Hon Andrew O'Donnell for highlighting some of those. It is really important to indicate why this government thinks that TAFE and vocational education is important. The reason is that TAFE is often a transition for many young people from their childhood to their adulthood. They go from being involved in their compulsory school system to the non-compulsory vocational education and training system. They make a transition. They often start when they are in the last years of school, when they are in years 11 and 12, and then continue their training. It is a really important transitional time for young people. That is why it is so critical that this government and any future governments continue to show significant and ongoing support for this sector, not just in terms of bricks and mortar buildings but also the entry point. We are very proud of the efforts we have put into making TAFE free, in many instances, or much more affordable, and we will continue to sing about those. Young people are often unable to afford the up-front fees that have been charged in other areas to access training. That is why a viable, healthy and active vocational education and training system is a key driver of both social and economic growth. That is a really key thing. As I say, it is a catalyst for many young people.
I will pick up the point that Hon Tjorn Sibma legitimately raised about completions. Completions of TAFE courses vary depending on the course. They also vary according to the cohort coming into those courses. The government is aware of completion rates and is actively looking for ways to improve them, particularly in the construction area. The issue with completion rates is that things are not like they used to be back in the Dickensian days when an apprentice was indentured to their employer for a period of time and if the young apprentice left their indenture, they would be tracked down by the police and brought back to their employer.
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: You do not have to go back to Dickens for that. It was happening in the 1950s.
Hon Matthew Swinbourn: Yes, and I do not think it is acceptable to anybody in this day and age to have a system of, effectively, locking a young person, usually, into a period of indentured training and employment. I do not think that is a solution. There are efforts being made and people are turning their minds to this issue. Although Hon Tjorn Sibma has a view about the national productivity roundtable and its success, one of the key areas in which we can improve productivity of our economy is through training. Training is a key driver of productivity improvement. Good training and good vocational education is one of those keys. If we as a community and jurisdiction do our VET well and get people trained up, we increase productivity. It is that stepping stone through life. We see that more now. There used to be a time, perhaps that of my parents or grandparents, when you became a tradie and were stuck in that trade for life. You did not progress from being a carpenter, as my father was, to being the business owner or developer. But that is not the case in many areas now. There is a lot of social and economic movement connected with people who are trained in the vocational education and training system. That is a really key thing. It is really critical for any government, particularly Labor governments, to focus on our investment in this area.
One of the other issues is about future industries. It is really key that we are conscious of two particular future industries for which we need to make sure the VET system is in place. One of those is renewables, because we will need a lot more building and construction workers, in particular people who can work with electricity, to put it bluntly. Renewables are a dispersed energy system, they are not like the big old power stations like in Collie and Kwinana—
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: It is currently in Collie for a little while longer.
Hon Matthew Swinbourn: Yes, it is currently in Collie, the member is correct.
Renewables are dispersed so you need more lines, more poles and more electrical workers in that system. They used to be called linesmen, but I suppose they are called linespeople now, and they put that infrastructure up. We need to train that workforce to do that.
The other emerging area, which was mentioned by Hon Andrew O'Donnell, is the arrangements with AUKUS. Going forward, we will need more workers in Western Australia to provide—
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: Probably some nuclear-trained ones.
Hon Matthew Swinbourn: Maybe. I am not getting into the details. Can you stop interjecting on me, if you do not mind! I am trying to give a contribution here, and I do not like it when I agree with you across the chamber either!
AUKUS is an emerging issue for Western Australia because of the additional shipbuilding and maintenance that will come with it. That is a positive thing for our community. They will be well-paid, highly trained jobs. The last point I made about workers being highly trained falls on us. It will give an opportunity for young people to go through school and have those long-term jobs. They will invest in themselves and we will invest in them. That is the key here. It is a combined thing between the state and individual to make sure we are investing in them and they are investing in themselves.
Thank you to Hon Klasey Hirst. We have significantly improved the VET area and we are now looking forward to the future. I have focused on two areas that are mostly industrial in nature. I think some other members will talk about the social areas for which we provide training for childcare and other kinds of workers. I do not know why am looking at Hon Dr Katrina Stratton, but I presume she will make a contribution! That is also an area in which we have had an emerging and developing workforce, and for which our TAFE system has provided great benefit.
Lastly, I reflect on my own benefit from the TAFE system. When I first met my wife, she was a TAFE student at Bentley TAFE, undertaking veterinary nursing studies.
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: A very honourable profession!
Hon Matthew Swinbourn: That is right! We have had a lot of conversations about veterinary nurses—or maybe vet nurses is the correct way—
Hon Dr Steve Thomas interjected.
Hon Matthew Swinbourn: It is veterinary nurses, yes.
She stopped being a vet nurse about 25 years ago, but she still identifies as a vet nurse, so it is an interesting dynamic!
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: Here is a tip, I still identify as a rugby player!
Hon Matthew Swinbourn: Yes, well!
Hon Dr Steve Thomas interjected.
Hon Matthew Swinbourn: Yes!
It was obvious to me that as a person who happened to be unemployed at that time she was getting benefit and support from that program by being in training and employment. As well as the peer support she was getting from her colleagues, there was also the social network. With those contributions, I shall sit down and endorse the vocational education and training system.
The Deputy President: The question is that the motion be agreed. I give the call to Hon Dr Steve Thomas.
Hon Dr Steve Thomas (12:09 pm): Thank you, Deputy President. See guys, that is what happens—you have to jump up early on! Here is a tip for new members: get in early and jump up. I am still a rugby player! Every year my career gets a little bit better.
Deputy President, thank you for the call. It has been a good debate thus far and it has been presented in a very positive manner. Hon Klasey Hirst obviously has a passion for the training sector, which is good. I like the fact that the motion did not congratulate the Cook Labor government for anything in particular, but identified an issue. There was a bit in the speech. I appreciate the contribution of Hon Andrew O'Donnell, who encouraged me to use charts. That is something I will now try to do on a more regular basis. Contributions were of course also made by Hon Tjorn Sibma and the minister.
I want to address a couple of issues. The first is completion rates, which was raised a couple of times. The Labor Party is very keen to say, "Look, we've got all these fee-free courses in place and we've fixed the TAFE system and the training system because we're giving lots of stuff away for free." It is that classic old chestnut: we are doing more and spending more, therefore the outcome is good. That is the problem. This is the left-wing bench of the Labor Party. The more you do, the more you spend, the better it is. We are right back to Sir Humphrey. Administration goes round and round and there is no end to it. We should be looking at the results and the outcomes. I was encouraged by Hon Andrew O'Donnell and his need for documentation. I am going to provide a little bit for him.
I seek leave to table a chart of both apprenticeships and traineeships from 2016–17 to 2024–25.
Leave granted.
(See paper 459.)
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: It is nice to have enthusiasm from your own side on occasion. We just have to try to wake everybody up as we go.
Hon Samantha Rowe: They don't even want to see it!
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: No, you probably do not, Hon Samantha "Rowdy" Rowe. Here it is in slightly enlarged form, as I am just trying to make it big enough for Hon Andrew O'Donnell to see. The problem is this. The blue line—the middle line—is apprenticeships commenced. The green line at the top is people and apprenticeships, and commencements went up a bit but have dropped back a little bit in 2024–25. By the way, in case members are wondering where I got the figures, I got them from the government. Every three months or so I ask the minister for training what the numbers are. Most recently, I think as recently as in May this particular year—
Hon Dan Caddy: So you do get answers to your questions after all!
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: On occasion—just on occasion! This is a question on notice though, answered on 17 June 2025 by the new minister. I did enjoy our erstwhile colleague, the then Leader of the House Hon Sue Ellery, who used to provide these answers to questions on notice on a regular basis. Here is the problem: the red line at the bottom is apprenticeships completed and it has flatlined from 2016–17. You guys came in in 2017–18 and it stayed pretty constant. Bear in mind that for the first couple of years the economy was a bit tight. We hit the boom in 2019–20; it was a massive boom, as we have discussed. That was six years ago now. All this money was coming in but completions on apprenticeships have not shifted. They are exactly as they were for all of that period of time. In fact, about 4,500 apprenticeships were completed back in 2016–17 and 4,800 last financial year. The completion rate of apprenticeships has not actually increased. There are more people in apprenticeships and more people are dropping out. That is a shame and that is problematic, but the reality is that the government has not significantly increased the completion rate. Traineeships have a similar role, honourable members of the Labor Party. The number of traineeships commenced has increased, but completions have actually gone down from nearly 10,000 in 2016–17 to under 5,000 in the last financial year.
We all talk about how much we like the training sector, and we do. Government members are very keen on the training sector and are great supporters of it—well done—as are we, as is Hon Tjorn Sibma, who takes great pride in supporting the TAFE training sector and the apprenticeship sector. However, the reality is, for all its enthusiasm about putting out fee-free courses, the government provides free courses and measures its success by the amount of money out the door, not by the number of completed traineeships and apprenticeships. I agree with the minister that that will stimulate the economy and deliver better outcomes to Western Australia. That is the bit we have all agreed on so far today. Can we please move on from the historical past, whether it is the previous Liberal government, which threw out free courses, or the previous Labor government, because these courses are not actually delivering the outcomes that the government thinks they are delivering. Maybe that will change in the future. We had this massive economic boom and a massive boom in construction. These days, across Australia, the vast majority of that economic boom is being funded by the public purse. Looking at the growth of construction, public construction is booming and private construction is rather stagnant. That is exactly what has happened in Western Australia. The asset investment program went from $6 billion to $12 billion at the same time that surpluses grew by $6 billion and iron ore royalties went up from $6 billion to $12 billion. The reality is that public investment is driving the growth in construction in particular.
Before we get too excited about this—completions are a critical issue—there is a second issue I would like to raise. The second issue is one that we have talked about before: the massive gap between what industry wants, particularly TAFE apprentices, to have learnt, and what TAFE is providing to its apprentices. How do we know that? Again, my good friend, the erstwhile Leader of the House, Hon Sue Ellery—
A member interjected.
Hon Dr Steve Thomas: It means the same thing—erstwhile means former! Hon Sue Ellery was smart enough to know there was an issue. I have a lot of respect for Hon Sue Ellery. What did she do when she became the training minister? She put two industry liaison officers into all the regions of TAFE—North Metropolitan, South Metropolitan and South Regional TAFE. She put in two industry liaison offices because it was made plain to her by industry that the skills that these apprentices needed were not the skills that were being delivered. She knew that. I knew two of these industry liaison officers really well. They are personal friends of mine. I am not going to name them for obvious reasons. They might one day want to work for the government again. They went out and they spoke to industry. The Labor Party is vicious if you are not careful! They went out and spoke to industry and they came back and they said to the administrators of TAFE, which I presume eventually got back to the minister but maybe it did not, that they had consulted with industry, particularly in contracting and constructing, for courses like the ones that Hon Klasey Hirst really loves, such as heavy diesel mechanics. They said, "Industry has told us the skills that you are teaching are not sufficiently relevant for us to get value out of these apprentices, so when you've trained them, we have to retrain them." The two friends I have who spoke to industry said, "That's what we got told and that's the message we took back to the administration in TAFE." I got it from heavy diesel mechanics who said they are teaching what is in the past not what is in the present. They have no idea about what is going to come in the future. It was exactly the same response for air-conditioning engineers. I cannot tell members how many industries have come to me and said that the skills they are getting are not the skills they need and they have to retrain them at the end of the day. Hon Sue Ellery had the right idea: go and talk to industry to find out. These people asked industry, and industry said, "These are the skills that our apprentices need."
There is a contracting business in the South West that has 80 to 90 apprentices on average. It is a huge business. It got so frustrated with South Regional TAFE that it took its apprentices—every one it could—out of Bunbury TAFE and took them up to the WesTrac Institute WA because at least they would get the skills that were required. There was a massive impact on Bunbury TAFE. Do members know what the response was from TAFE administration when they were told the industry needed these things? They said, "We don't teach that. That's not what we teach. We do this." The message was, "We're not flexible enough to teach the things that are actually needed."
If there is a second message out of my contribution today it is to go back and talk to industry again and repeat the work of Hon Sue Ellery. The current minister can go back and have a look and ask, "What are the skills that industry needs in the graduates they are providing?" This time around, the government can make sure that those are the skills that are being delivered. The government might get that completion rate up and people in work.
Hon Dr Katrina Stratton (Parliamentary Secretary) (12:19 pm): I rise to make what will inevitably be a brief contribution to this motion brought before us. I thank Hon Klasey Hirst for bringing this motion before us today and I appreciate her personal connection in Midland to this motion. I also have a personal connection to this motion, but a few suburbs away in Shenton Park. It is fair to say that vocational education and training has changed my daughter's life. I want to focus particularly on how the Cook Labor government has demonstrated and built the value of vocational education, including by ensuring that it is accessible for everybody in our community.
For me, this is certainly not a matter of having ideological blinkers on. It is a day-to-day experience that I live through with my daughter. Those members who have been through year 9 will know it is the horror year. For those who have children who have not yet got to year 9, I wish them all the very best. My daughter is a student at Shenton College, which is a fantastic public school in Shenton Park. In year 9, it became pretty clear that mainstream school was not for her. We were dealing with an attendance rate of 26% and were on a trajectory such that it is fair to say that she did not really have a vision or an idea of what her career might look like. We sat down with her year coordinator, she was invited to participate in the futures program and in year 10 she did a certificate II in workplace skills and a certificate II in volunteering. It was through those experiences, which included work experience and volunteering experience back at her primary school and Hollywood Primary School, that she really started to craft an idea of what she wanted to do with her life.
We sat down with the dedicated deputy principal for VET. As I have said, I went to Hollywood Senior High School, as did my brother and my sister, and the deputy principal had taught the three of us. When we sat down with Kate, the deputy principal said to her, "Well, of course, your mum is the aberration in your family. You come from a long line of tradies and entrepreneurs." I could feel and see the weight lift from Kate's shoulders—mainstream school is not the only option. She started a course after finishing year 10. This year she started a certificate II and later a certificate III in beauty and make-up at a registered training organisation. She had already intended to become an enrolled nurse after she had completed her beauty qualifications. She would continue her TAFE journey to become an enrolled nurse because, being entrepreneurial, she recognised that injectables were possibly the way to go if she was going to continue her career in beauty and make-up. Through doing the beauty and make-up courses, she discovered that nursing was really where her heart lay. So, with the help of the school, she now has the most amazing course trajectory in which she does a combination of traditional school and TAFE; she goes to Shenton College three days a week and she does the other two days at TAFE, where she is doing a health practices course. She is currently learning about the social determinants of health. She rang me as she was doing her reading about the different health outcomes for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in particular. She also does human biology through the School of Independent and Distance Education because she has now decided that she would like to do nursing at university.
One of the achievements of the Cook Labor government through valuing and building TAFE and VET is that it is now a very practical and a very real pathway to university. Many diplomas and certificates that people undertake at TAFE or through other RTOs are offered as credit towards degrees. Therefore, the diploma of nursing can lead to a Bachelor of Nursing. The diploma of engineering feeds into engineering degrees. We see now that the distinction between VET and university is fading. In actual fact, students will combine both TAFE and university education to build versatile and future-ready careers. Kate's great-grandmother was a nurse, so she follows in that great family tradition, and she particularly wants to work with older and ageing people, inspired by love for her three very special grandparents. I have to say that I would not have had all of the privileges that I have enjoyed in my life without my dad undertaking a trade. He and my mum built a very successful business on the back of him being an auto-mechanic, and so I stand in support of the motion, but I also stand in support of all those who are VET qualified in their contributions.
Motion lapsed, pursuant to standing orders.
